Curse

Grimm · Feb 25, 2006, 10:22 PM // 22:22

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fantus

Quoted for being WRONG.

Why do all people equal PvE with grind? I don't get it. Really, I don't. I play both PvE and PvP. I love both aspects of the game. I never got the feeling that one aspect is favored above the other. The only true statement would be that GW has CERTAINLY the best PvP mode of all fantasy games in the world while it's not the only great PvE game out there. It doesn't change the fact that GW is GREAT in PvE, too. I prefer GW to other RPGs because your success depends on your skill and not your character. That's the case in both PvE and PVP.

Because so many PvE players are so trained to grind that they make it a grind. GW PvE is not grind if you play it the way it was designed. People are so convinced that virtual rewards are the game that they think having as much money or the "best" items is the goal of the game. GW is designed to *not* be about money and items, but people can't help but play it like it is.

Grimm · Feb 25, 2006, 10:24 PM // 22:24

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kakumei

No. Guild Wars has ZERO character development. Leveling up and raising numbers is not character development. There's no role-playing. There's no choice.

Guild Wars is a great game. I love it. I've logged in 1200+ hours on both PvE and PvP, easily more than twice the time I've ever spent on any other single game. But to call it a true role-playing game is foolish.

If you want to roleplay, go get on IRC. Go find a MUD. Go play D&D. That's roleplaying.

None of these have anything to do with roleplaying.

Finally someone who actually knows what role-playing actually means.

90% of the video/computer games out there called RPGS have little or no role-playing at all.

Grimm · Feb 25, 2006, 10:30 PM // 22:30

Sorry about the double post my browser was acting weird. :/

calamitykell · Feb 25, 2006, 10:50 PM // 22:50

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimm

Ah, yes and farming for gold and items is very in-depth role-playing, I suppose?

I'm sure you think you're being very clever, but it seems you lack reading comprehension skills or understanding of what "role-playing" means.

If you think any aspect of GW involves any true role-playing you're sorely mistaken. Any type of game that involves playing a character with stats is generally called a "role-playing game", but this is purely convention. The term "role-playing game" is a vague one, but "competitive" is not. GW is called a "competitive online role-playing game". You cannot ignore "competitive" in that. Nor would its competitiveness exclude its being a "role-playing game".

Look at the genre of games called "tactical role-playing games". These games involve little if any actual role-playing, instead focusing on the tactical element. They're tactics games with characters that you develop rather than faceless identical units, just like GW is a competitive game with characters that you develop rather than faceless identical units. Neither involves any actual role-playing. Your "clever" wordplay is like saying that tactical rpgs aren't really tactical because part of the genre name is "role-playing".

Your word games don't work; sorry.

Actually, your reading comprehension must be nil. Role-Playing would be going through the story. Despite your short attention span and obvious illiteracy, a story IS present in Guild Wars. Your character plays an important role. Wow, a role. That your character plays. And according to you, that isn't role-playing?

You're comparing what players do AFTER they finish the game, to them actually playing through the game. Let me ask you a question... what role-playing game is out there where once you beat it, there's still a giant open world where you have endless possibilities? MMO's don't count because Guild Wars isn't an MMO. I really want to see your list.

So, while you may not think my "word games" work, then neither do yours, because I literally just substituted "role-playing" for "competitive" in your argument. If mine doesn't work, then neither does yours, and you admit to being an idiot.

Again, nice try.

drowningfish999 · Feb 25, 2006, 11:51 PM // 23:51

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Actually, your reading comprehension must be nil. Role-Playing would be going through the story. Despite your short attention span and obvious illiteracy, a story IS present in Guild Wars. Your character plays an important role. Wow, a role. That your character plays. And according to you, that isn't role-playing?

You're comparing what players do AFTER they finish the game, to them actually playing through the game. Let me ask you a question... what role-playing game is out there where once you beat it, there's still a giant open world where you have endless possibilities? MMO's don't count because Guild Wars isn't an MMO. I really want to see your list.

So, while you may not think my "word games" work, then neither do yours, because I literally just substituted "role-playing" for "competitive" in your argument. If mine doesn't work, then neither does yours, and you admit to being an idiot.

Again, nice try.

For the sake of fairness, the Elder Scrolls series (Arena, Daggerfall, Morrowind and Oblivion) have open ended explorable worlds after you beat the game. but that doesn't change the fact that GW isn't an RPG. If anything, most MMORPG's aren't true RPG, because your not really taking a role in a story, your just going on raids and moving from dungeon to dungeon leveling up. Guild Wars PvE is heavily story driven, and once the story ends, places like UW and FoW and all the good farming spots open up to give non PvPers something to do.

Age · Feb 26, 2006, 01:45 AM // 01:45

The way I look at it is this is that GW was intended on being a more competive PvP game but that has changed.GW has sold over a million copies to those who aren't really PvPers mostly rpgers if it wasn't for PvE they wouldn't have sold that many copies.The majority of the player base in GW is PvE not PvP this all being said the Devs will have to give more content for those in PvE or lose sales in up coming chapters unless they create a single player/ multi player of the game.That is of course moddable so you can have sereral mods for it on a server .If this was truely a PvP focused game why introduce 15K armor?

Grimm · Feb 26, 2006, 03:54 AM // 03:54

Quote:

Originally Posted by calamitykell

Actually, your reading comprehension must be nil. Role-Playing would be going through the story. Despite your short attention span and obvious illiteracy, a story IS present in Guild Wars. Your character plays an important role. Wow, a role. That your character plays. And according to you, that isn't role-playing?

You're comparing what players do AFTER they finish the game, to them actually playing through the game. Let me ask you a question... what role-playing game is out there where once you beat it, there's still a giant open world where you have endless possibilities? MMO's don't count because Guild Wars isn't an MMO. I really want to see your list.

So, while you may not think my "word games" work, then neither do yours, because I literally just substituted "role-playing" for "competitive" in your argument. If mine doesn't work, then neither does yours, and you admit to being an idiot.

Again, nice try.

Nice straw man and ad-hominem attacks (do you know what that means?). I said nothing about a story; I said GW is not a role-playing game. Mario Bros. has a story and you play a role also. So Mario Bros. must be an RPG! Same with Doom. It has a story, and you play the role of Doom Guy. Actually, almost all games are RPGs except for games like Tetris.

I'm doing no such thing. Oh,and the Elder Scrolls series fits that criteria.

And you can shove your stupid personal attacks up your ass.

Grimm · Feb 26, 2006, 04:03 AM // 04:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by Age

The way I look at it is this is that GW was intended on being a more competive PvP game but that has changed.GW has sold over a million copies to those who aren't really PvPers mostly rpgers if it wasn't for PvE they wouldn't have sold that many copies.The majority of the player base in GW is PvE not PvP this all being said the Devs will have to give more content for those in PvE or lose sales in up coming chapters unless they create a single player/ multi player of the game.That is of course moddable so you can have sereral mods for it on a server .If this was truely a PvP focused game why introduce 15K armor?

This quote pretty much sums up (and confirms) what you said:

O'Brien explains, "The original intent of Guild Wars was that people who built up role-playing characters and played through all the content would eventually want to start using those characters in PVP. We've [now] seen that many players want to continue to focus exclusively on role-playing content."

What I don't get is that there are many PvE-focused MMOs out there, yet so many PvE only people choose to play a game whose game mechanics was designed primarily around PvP. Then they complain that the level cap is too low, the story is too short,there are no horses to ride, there no jobs like baker, plumber, etc and that there are no truly "uber' items. Well, duh; it's not that type of game.

I would love to see them focus on PvP in order to please the people who like the game for what it is, a *competitive* role-playing game instead of trying to please the people who think of the game as a poor, but free alternative to WoW.

Hanok Odbrook · Feb 26, 2006, 05:43 AM // 05:43

I remember reading somewhere that GW was intended to be BOTH a PvE game with PvP elements. Both were equally important, but the focus was on playing the PvE portion of the game prior to PvP. However, the option for PvP lovers was to be able to create PvP only characters using preset builds.

Pharaphrased quote from what I remember: The original intent of this game was to have gamers play through the PvE portion of the game, then enjoy some PvP while waiting for the next chapter to come out.

That all changed when the PvPers began crying about not being able to create a unique character because skills and mods had to be unlocked in order to use them on custom PvP only builds. Hence the so-called UAS (Unlock All Skills) debacle, and the following change that brought about the earning of Faction in PvP arenas. Only after this did the game shift more towards favoring PvP only players as opposed to PvEers.

For anyone to believe that GW is (or ever was primarily for) PvP has obviously forgotten that Pre-Searing is THE tutorial for the game. Out of the entire area, PvP comprised one three minute portion of the tutorial. After entering Post-Searing, there are a whole two PvP arenas in the entire Ascalon and North Shiverpeaks areas. In order to reach the bulk of the PvP arenas, one must travel fully one third of the way through the game to get to Lion's Arch.

Finally, where else does one do PvP in GW? PvP is held strictly to a handful of arenas that only make up a small portion of the explorable world. Everywhere else, one is relegated to solo adventuring, or (as the devs intended this game to be), meet up with other on-line players to form a party to complete quests, missions, and explore - something that harkens back to the very beginnings of the CRPG with Wizardry and Forgotten Realms. Only this time, other people help you form your party as opposed to you simply creating six characters to explore a dungeon.

Can't get too much more PvE than that, I think.

Hanok Odbrook
Real Millennium Group Guild
Truth * Knowledge * Peace

Arcanis the Omnipotent · Feb 26, 2006, 07:21 AM // 07:21

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grimm

I would love to see them focus on PvP in order to please the people who like the game for what it is, a *competitive* role-playing game instead of trying to please the people who think of the game as a poor, but free alternative to WoW.

Except that would suck royally. When I turn on the game, I go out with my completed character and just roam and explore. I look for things I havent seen before, or go in areas I didnt dare go in before. I dont worry about items, or gold. They're just happy little things that happen when I'm out.

I'm an explorer. When I play PVE I do it because I like doing it. Fighting monsters or enemies, exploring dangerous areas, finding routes I didnt know about. That's my PVE.

PVP to me is pointless. There's no reward for it, or atleast no good reward. Its just a bunch of people, fighting each other for no reason. Atleast in HoH there's a good reason. But GvG, or the other smaller arenas, there's no point. Its just fighting for fighting's sake. And I'm sorry, but if there's no purpose for it, then why bother doing it?

unienaule · Feb 26, 2006, 07:26 AM // 07:26

Yeah, this kind of thing generally degenerates to attacks and flaming, which it now has. Closed.